Sen. Martin Heinrich (D-NM) is one of just 17 senators on the Senate Intelligence Committee, and he remains skeptical of the extraordinary claims made by UFO (or UAP) whistleblower David Grusch.

“Generally, I would look skeptically at many of these reports,” Heinrich told me at the start of June in WIRED magazine.

Heinrich is concerned about all the unidentified objects flying above us.

“The Chinese balloon, I think, opened a lot of people's eyes to the fact that there's a lot of stuff up there that we need to track and understand what it is,” Heinrich says. “And if you don't have data, you can't do that, and you can't separate out what is a drone or a balloon from something we actually don't know what it is.”

While Heinrich remains dubious, I caught up with him right before Congress left Washington for its two-week July Fourth recess, he also supports the UAP hearings being spearheaded by Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand (D-NY).

“I think that’s a reasonable approach,” Heinrich says. “First-person accounts just have more resonance than, sort of, hearsay, generally.”

Below are recordings and rough transcripts of Ask a Pol’s two June interviews with Heinrich.

Senator Heinrich interview I — 6-8-2023

Matt Laslo: “UAPs?”

Martin Heinrich: “So we've done quite a bit of work now in the Intel. Committee, just forcing the services to collect data.”

Matt Laslo: “Yeah.”

MH: “And what that does is it gives us some ability to figure out, like, what's a weather balloon? What's—you know?”

ML: “Yeah.”

MH: “I mean, like, the Chinese balloon, I think, opened a lot of people's eyes to the fact that there's a lot of stuff up there that we need to track and understand what it is. And if you don't have data, you can't do that, and you can't separate out what is a drone or a balloon from something we actually don't know what it is.”

Matt Laslo: “Without this newest whistleblower, if I'm reading him right…”

MH: “Off, off, off the record.”

Heinrich whispers to Laslo off mic.

MH: “There's not—I wouldn't read too much into that.”

ML: “Yeah? You guys still have to investigate it?”

MH: “Yeah, I mean, we need to look at—what I take seriously, sometimes you just have these really good, decorated pilots and navigating officers who are experiencing things that we can't understand—or we can't explain. So we need to collect data so that we can figure out what is going on.”

ML: “What I was gonna say is, the whistleblower, if what he says is correct, there's decades of data that the government does have that they haven't shared with Congress. Your reaction to that?”

MH: “I would—I think, generally, I would look skeptically at many of these reports.”

ML: “Yeah?”

MH: “Yeah.”

ML: Appreciate ya!”

MH: “Alright, thanks.”

Senator Heinrich interview II — 6-20-2023

Matt Laslo: “Have you looked into the whistleblower more?”

Martin Heinrich: “Not in great detail.”

ML: “But you kind of dismiss him out of hand?”

MH: “I don’t do—like, I’m not a huge: First-person accounts just have more resonance than, sort of, hearsay, generally.”

ML: “Gillibrand said she wants to bring him in but then also talk to the other people mentioned in there.”

MH: “Alright. Yeah.”

ML: “Do you wanna hear from him—or?”

MH: “I think that’s a reasonable approach.”

ML: “Yeah? Appreciate ya.”

Matt Laslo is a veteran congressional correspondent and the founder of Ask a Pol—the people-powered press corps. Find him on Twitter @MattLaslo or follow @Ask_a_Pol.

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